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Bill22
12-19-2012, 03:01 PM
I am planning to get my first real ski boat in 2013 (first inboard). I have only owned I/O with a carb before. Boats that fit my $ range are í98-01.

Would you wait to find a boat with fuel injection and not look at boats with a carb?

What do you guys think about boats with a carb from a maintenance view?

Do you guys with carbs have problems getting your boat started when going for a late fall ride? Not sure if the temp change makes much difference.

I am not saying that boats with a carb canít be reliable or perform well. But having that turnkey start and no need to pump the throttle sounds like it would be worth waiting to find. I do most of my own maintenance on my cars, trucks and boats. I have had a little bit of trouble with my OLD boat getting the carb adjusted just right. I think part of the problem is I have not done enough research on tuning and tweaking carbs.

Not sure if this matters for this discussion but, I am planing to get an OB slalom boat.

Bill22
12-19-2012, 03:07 PM
"Card'd vs EFI era Supras... What do you prefer??"

After reading the thread above I got my answer. No need to open that can of worms again.

Carb is good, EFI is better.

docdrs
12-19-2012, 10:32 PM
Had both.......EFI pro>>> better gas consumption although fuel is really a moot point. More predictable long term performance. Way easier start up on cold days. con >>> need to change fuel filters more regularly, vapour lock possible on hot days in older models (but easily remedied), harder to self diagnose when something does go wrong. IMO EFI wins but a die hard tuner will disagree but he can usu tune and rebuild carbs in a heartbeat. Just my .02.......... on a 98 - 01 I wouldn't think there will be a big diff in price....

cadunkle
12-20-2012, 10:46 AM
Carb is good, EFI is better.

I would say exactly the opposite. EFI can get the job done, but if you want something that just plain works, all the time, and will never leave you stranded... Get a carb. Fuel economy differences on a boat are negligible as you tune basically the same way, there are very few, if any, dynamically tuning EFI setups for boats due to the wet exhaust and issues with O2 sensors. Difference being carb is more reliable and saves a ton of money over EFI.

haugy
12-20-2012, 12:59 PM
IMO EFI wins but a die hard tuner will disagree but he can usu tune and rebuild carbs in a heartbeat.

Die Hard tuner quoted below :D :D


I would say exactly the opposite. EFI can get the job done, but if you want something that just plain works, all the time, and will never leave you stranded... Get a carb. Fuel economy differences on a boat are negligible as you tune basically the same way, there are very few, if any, dynamically tuning EFI setups for boats due to the wet exhaust and issues with O2 sensors. Difference being carb is more reliable and saves a ton of money over EFI.


Here's how it breaks down?

1) Can you pull a carb apart right now, rebuild it, and tune it? NO. EFI
2) Are you average with a wrench? Know how to fix minor things, handy, modest knowledge? If so, EFI.
3) Do you like working on your engines regularly? NO. EFI

I love my carb for the old school of it, and the ability to get a good tuned sound. But it's a dinosaur. I would have no issues about a newer boat being EFI at all. Definitely the way to go on any boat 95 and newer. I keep mine old school for what it is, old school.

cadunkle
12-21-2012, 08:50 PM
Here's how it breaks down?

1) Can you pull a carb apart right now, rebuild it, and tune it? NO. EFI

With EFI when it breaks down you'll be calling Sea Tow Bunnies for a $500 tow and then writing a big check to a bunny. More or less the same position you'd be in if your carb breaks and you don't know those things... Difference being carbs are cheaper and easier to repair, so a smaller check to write to the bunny. Any bunny who wants to learn basic troubleshooting can quickly learn to troubleshoot a carb setup. EFI is much more complex. More importantly for where I boat, in the rare event I have a fuel issue or a bunny pops up, I know my bunnies and I can get a Holley running a lot quicker than EFI. That might be the difference between driving safely away and being killed by a bunny, under a barge, tanker, carrier, etc. So far my biggest problem with my carb boat has been a brand new ignition coil (defective) that sent me and my bunnies on a wild bunny chase due to the intermittent nature of its failure.


2) Are you average with a wrench? Know how to fix minor things, handy, modest knowledge? If so, EFI.

I would think carb in that case. Basic knowledge and mechanically inclined and you'll avoid a costly tow or missing a day on the water if you've got basic fuel problems with a carb. They just work, and in the rare event they don't there are very few things that can fail. All parts are cheap and easy to get anywhere for a typical Holley carb. Typical carb problem boils down to dirt somewhere, check your fuel and air filters and clean the air bleeds. Failing that check/set float level, verify accelerator pump function, etc. Easy to do anywhere with basic hand tools and a can of carb cleaner. If you got a stuck/failed injector, bad sensor, etc... well not so quick and easy, or cheap for that matter.


3) Do you like working on your engines regularly? NO. EFI

Funny, all my daily drivers have always had either Autolite or Holley carbs and don't require working on the engine regularly. Just normal maintenance, oil changes and such. I'll check my float level and readjust idle mixture every couple years when I do a full tune up, but very rarely does the carb require adjustment. Typically while doing an oil change and waiting for the oil to drain I'll give a quick spray of my air bleeds as a preventative measure.


I love my carb for the old school of it, and the ability to get a good tuned sound. But it's a dinosaur. I would have no issues about a newer boat being EFI at all. Definitely the way to go on any boat 95 and newer. I keep mine old school for what it is, old school.

Each Bunny to his own, but I prefer a simple reliable carb engine. That is one of the reasons I got the Saltare over some of the newer EFI boats I looked at. Though if I ended up with a Sport Nautique or similar with an EFI 351w... A bunny would have a carb on it in no time.

haugy
12-21-2012, 10:42 PM
You truly are a rabid bunny that eats the souls of the squirrels in the woods sometimes. Anytime an engine debate comes up, you jump on the defense like someone just told you that flux-capacitors are real.

Those questions are directed at the OP. If you look again:

1)If he can't rebuild a carb from scratch right now, it would be better for him to go EFI.
2)If he's not a mechanic, I'd again go with an EFI. If it fails, he'll be going to a mechanic. EFI has a better reliability rate.
3)If he's not a gearhead like you or I, and enjoys working on engines, he doesn't need a Carb. Carbs require occasional maintenance, care, etc. And only hobbyists enjoy it.


Stop making every engine debate about bunnies . Yes we know bunnies like your carbs, yes we know you have old trucks. This is about the OP, not bunnies. I have carbs on half of my toys, and EFI on the other. Guess what? Bunnies never had to do a thing to my EFI toys, but my carbs have all had to be pulled and rebuilt or tuned at some point. I'm not trying to be a bigger bunny, but you've got to start letting others decide for themselves, rather than why bunnies think yours are better.

Okay? 8)

Jetlink
12-22-2012, 12:58 AM
Haugy, flux capacitors are real...come take a ride in one of our toys and when we get up to 88 MPH, you'll see some pretty cool stuff.

DAFF
12-22-2012, 08:33 AM
Was talking boats with a friend who owns a Auto recycling facility. The discussion came up with the EFI of my supra. He asked me if it was multi port injection I said no. Want to make it ??? From there I came up with the idea of switching the carb from the Formula and converting the old boat to multi port injection. Seems he is a Chevy guru and just happens to have a complete smacked up car for the 350 MPI conversion.

After a season of running EFI.... Carbs stink !!! EFI is NOT as complicated as everyone thinks.

Jetlink
12-22-2012, 10:51 AM
This should get interesting...I'll go pop the popcorn. Who wants some?

Blackntan90
12-22-2012, 12:06 PM
Popcorn? Yes with butter please! My '90 Mariah with the 351 and Holley carb has been great, but I can see how an EFI would be nice...

docdrs
12-22-2012, 04:03 PM
Play nice Boys.....everyone is entitled to their opinion even if its wrong :) ......but thats just my opinion :)

Debate is good but please no bullying

haugy
12-22-2012, 07:23 PM
Silly Bunny? Seriously? That's not bullying, bullying would have been continued name calling and such. I'm just stating what I see, a person who doesn't always read both sides of the question before jumping in with his opinion. The manner in which he insults those who aren't as uber awesome as he is at turning a wrench is bullying.

If you want to edit my post, just delete it. But please don't make me look like a childish imbecile. Trust, me you haven't seen me bully. You'll know when I do.


And for the record, I like Cadunkle, the boy knows engines. But if I'm asking a question about what I need or can do, I don't need someone always telling me how awesome they can do it. How does that help me? I don't wear kid gloves, most of you know that. I'm not a jerk either, I just don't sugarcoat everything with lollipops, candy, and gumdrops from fairy land.

beat taco
12-22-2012, 11:42 PM
I am planning to get my first real ski boat in 2013 (first inboard). I have only owned I/O with a carb before. Boats that fit my $ range are ’98-01.

Would you wait to find a boat with fuel injection and not look at boats with a carb?

What do you guys think about boats with a carb from a maintenance view?

Do you guys with carbs have problems getting your boat started when going for a late fall ride? Not sure if the temp change makes much difference.

I am not saying that boats with a carb can’t be reliable or perform well. But having that turnkey start and no need to pump the throttle sounds like it would be worth waiting to find. I do most of my own maintenance on my cars, trucks and boats. I have had a little bit of trouble with my OLD boat getting the carb adjusted just right. I think part of the problem is I have not done enough research on tuning and tweaking carbs.

Not sure if this matters for this discussion but, I am planing to get an OB slalom boat.

You want a Moomba outback? If so please ask this question on the Moomba site and I promise a better result! Without name calling and repeatedly edited posts.

beat taco
12-23-2012, 07:05 AM
Bill22 said he was planning on getting his "first real ski boat" in 2013. I think that would exclude the Moomba from the search.

Mr. Beat Taco,
I think Bill22 came to the right place and asked the right questions and if you don't like a spirited debate, stay on the WW or your Moomba forums. My suggestion to you is STOP posting the snide comments every time you decide to come on here and say something like you know it all. You've posted 6 times and said a total of squat all six times. You're so upset with name calling, but fine with insults? Yeah, I remember you Jake!!
Why don't you write something such as, "Hey Bill22, my opinion on Carb vs. EFI is this and I believe this". (and really write something meaningful if you can)
Maybe then after a few intellectual posts, you can build a good rapport with the other users on here and after time if one decides to call another one an idiot or silly rabbit, just read between the lines and let them deal with it. We're not saving the world on here, so lighten up for goodness sake!!

Btw, I owe you another nickel. :D

I'm sorry! I'm just glad I told this guy where to go if indeed by saying OB he meant Moomba Outback. There's so many times I've wanted to tell a bloke who asks a question that the Moomba community could easily answer and provide in depth results to and don't because I don't want to say "hey, check out the Moomba site" to a Supra owner. It seems like it would be offensive to Supra management. I could go on about the conditions around here but don't wish to. I think he said Moomba. If he did come post his question and read my response. And my communities! We respect people and don't call them idiots for stating their fair opinion. So sorry to post here and more drama to a poor guys thread. Goodbye until someone posts a sick build over here again. Please read all my posts.

Edit: it looks like the guy with the wet sounds amps in the plexi-glass floor, the Moby vs. Ahmed wrap, and custom interior was deleted. Along with the only other posts I have made on these forums.

michael hunter
12-23-2012, 10:02 AM
IMO the best system is EFI its like having a tuner under the hood. The computer makes adjustments hundreds of times per minute to compensate for changing conditions. Better performance ,Better fuel economy and NO cold start issues are just a few of the benefits.
They stopped using carbs on cars and trucks in the early 80s mainly because of emissions and fuel economy. As for repairs simpler doesn't mean better its very likely you will never have to mess with the EFI . The Carb system will need yearly maintenance and tweaking . If you have no mechanical knowledge you will be just as lost with a carb as EFI. So to answer your question Yes I would wait for an EFI boat if possible . No there will not be any starting issues in cold weather with the carb as long as its set up correctly but still not as good as EFI.

cadunkle
12-24-2012, 10:45 PM
IMO the best system is EFI its like having a tuner under the hood. The computer makes adjustments hundreds of times per minute to compensate for changing conditions. Better performance ,Better fuel economy and NO cold start issues are just a few of the benefits.

Really? That's the case of the boats we're talking about? If so, so be it... but I'd be surprised. So far as I knew these boats are open loop systems running off fixed tables, not O2 sensors... Except for some very new boats. Your typical EFI boat is like an EFI car before it gets up to temp, or a performance EFI car running off fixed tables. It does just exactly what you tell it to, just like a carb. No intelligence or automagic tuning involved. Only the very latest boat engines have O2 sensors and adjust based on that. If your engine is in good health though, it doesn't need the mixture adjusted hundreds of times per minute. If you want to get technical about it, a carb is infinitely adjustable, since it's analog it will adjust mixture contin uously, something EFI simply cannot do.

I like carbs because they just plain work, and are cheap and easy to tune to a particular engine build. And for the record I have no cold start issues. If you have cold start issues it's because you don't know how to adjust a choke or your mechanic/manufacturer doesn't know how to. I can hop in my boat on a brisk morning after lows in the 40s, turn the key, and have a smooth idle and be on my way. No worries no fuss. If you prefer EFI, great... But my experience with EFI has been ex[ensive and left me walking. Walking is bad enough, swimming is worse. I will not put my life in danger for the novelty of the latest gadgets.

DKJBama92Mariah
12-24-2012, 11:44 PM
I believe the modern GM EFI systems installed in boats in the past 5-8 years are pretty top notch as for as reliability is concerned. The older systems, especially those from the mid to late 90's I don't have near as much faith in.

That being said, you can have my Holley 4160 and Mallory distributor when you pry them from my cold dead hands.

How bout we just leave the bunnies out the next time. EFI vs carb threads are bad enough without dragging small game into the picture.

Gregmacdog
12-25-2012, 03:26 AM
Soooo to make a long story short.
The answer is YES, EFI is better than a Carb.

MERRY CHRISTMAS!

Bill22
12-31-2012, 09:41 AM
You want a Moomba outback? If so please ask this question on the Moomba site and I promise a better result! Without name calling and repeatedly edited posts.

OB = Open Bow

I only mentioned this if anyone recommended a particular model Supra Open Bow boat that came standard with EFI.

Bill22
12-31-2012, 09:43 AM
Just got back from up North. Hope everyone had a Merry Christmas!

Thank you to everyone that posted.